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Yes we do handle incidents such as that and what we’re finding out now especially where when we’re assisting the Major Case Squad and one of our biggest entities that we work with us were wearing a pattern similar as Simba’s how are created , but they will see cell phones during the years Sedona of their crimes so bring into , to us and then we will look at each item Paul the extraction off of it. Provide a report to them so that they can look at it and there may be stuff on deleted there may not be depends on how it was stored and what applications for use but a lot of times that there’s text messages they want to see who they’re communicating with depending on how the forensics done we may be able to recover deleted items to help them in their investigations .
I was under the impression that one something was put on one of these devices and PCs and in particular , there is always there somewhere.
It can be , always there. It all depends on once this deleted if the area that is to leaders on allocated space if that area is needed to be used to store more data , it may be overwritten . We’ve , we recovered partial stop before were recovered a partial video or partial picture because part it was all were written by the needing of the item to utilize the space .
And can you give me an example , you mentioned early on the kinds of cases , you’re dealing with. But can you , can you give me a pretty good example of the case maybe you’ve worked on recently and how that , how that evolved .
We had someone where I think one of our better cases is where we had an incident in New Jersey , where the New Jersey police a farmer contacted one of our individuals who works for mobile devices they had a little girl. 15-year-old that was found dead and what they wanted to do was they found through their investigation through social media . They found her iPod debt was submerged in water , they were unable to get a go on . So our guy worked with him brought it back to our lab in St Louis and was able to put it back together and rebuild it will there he could pull the information off of it . They were able to utilize the information he recovered to work the case and identify the individuals and move forward for prosecution and subsequent guilty verdicts .
How does that work as evidence is it admissible yeah any issues with regard to to using it as evidence.
No one’s long as we followed the proper protocol , it’s just like any other item , it’s just like an evidence with a gun Winnie Winnie agency sees it they documented with an evidence for the new transfered to us making a request we sign Evans form Sean we receive it. And then , through our protocols we identify what methods were used . How we did the attraction and how we looked at it and then all the information that we recovered we put down into a report to provide them so that they can look at it see what’s Turner report and then utilize out for their investigation or prosecution .
How has the law changed over the years with regard to dealing with this digital world.
The law , there is a lot of changes that needed to be done. When I first started this in 2000-2002 there was really not much to address a digital field or even electronic field , they were still going like the old telephone system and finally the start move up into the world especially reflect a harassment laws because it was kind of hard to , you know . Put something share we out there when you only had telephones , but now that you have the media , you have the internet . It’s easy to put fake information out there to go after people and when law enforcement sees something we look at the game to try and show who really did it or if there is a possibility identify where it came from .
Is there any difficulty in in seizing this these things as phones and and PCs and tablets and that sort of thing.
There , the difficulty is you followed the same protocol where you need to get a search warrant or you need to get a consent and then verify what you’re seizing the thing is when you seize it. What type of data honor plus is a secured is a lockdown protected or even encrypted . If they don’t get a password . We have to try and figure out how to crack at or how to get into it to look at it , well , how do you do that , there are certain tools that we have where we can use a brute force to try and crack an encrypted diagram or we may have some other tools that can bypass past and then pull that off . And that’s , we’ve been kind of lucky were were being able to move around to to identify maybe over half of the items , but still it’s pretty hardy the companies creating these still work hard to make it so that they’re not crack ball but we try and work the old way , so we can try and get in these and give law enforcement what they need .
Privacy issues that you have to deal with them in some of the stuff to look at might have information on it , that is , is a private person or what have you.
Privacy issues , kind of , you know , is a workforce documents is that items that we have to go to the prosecutor. Talk with them , can we look at this , can we give this product out and it . We worked very close with the prosecutors . And we were close was with law enforcement in trying to detail what we can and cannot do .
It is law catching up to what you’re doing. I mean , you know , we talk a lot about the internet and things , people are doing on it in which there are some suspect in terms of legality . But the law hasn’t been written yet about some of these things .
There slowly addressing it , there are some laws that address like harassment items such as that , but you know we’re still be Honecker will be on. Can we force someone to give a pass code can we for someone to open it up . There are laws that are in the appeals court , like making an individual giver some print on a phone to unlock it or some other courts throughout the country and I’ll print on where you’re at 4 senior individual give a pass code but we have to keep up with Tehran where we’re getting our cases from what is a law in that region apply and how can we utilize it .
There has to be just like everything else. There has to be probable cause I supposed to get at . Some of this equipment . Yes , all right . How does that work .
When we accept the case the way it works with us as the agency will see CIA dumps they’ll contact our unit make arrangements to bring it in , and once they bring in the most important things that we asked for is a search warrant and we look at the search warrant say does a search warrant allow us to look at it , sort of probable cause was determined by the prosecutors. If they get a search warrant through the court we’re good to look at it now on a consent . We look at to consent and verify that the consent is valid and that we can look at it and it’s a proper person given to consent .
Well , let me give try an example this where hypothetical you there is a. The raid on a house . It’s a drug house you go in and you make a couple of arrests and you see some evidence and there is a cell phone in there , can you take the cell phone as well or do you have to have a specifically mentioned in a warrant of some sort .
The individuals depending on how the war has written warrants sees all I’m sick and sees it , but a lot of times what most law enforcement agencies will do is , they’ll have a prosecutor , they can contact your state. We got a cell phone . Can we take it and if we take it , what do we got to do to get a proper search authority they have someone look at it and and we review those very good , that’s one of the items that we look at , because we never wanted to do forensics on an item and have a thrown out .
You mentioned a little while ago that you assist on a case in New Jersey that that’s you know , a thousand miles from here , how is the how it happened that this local group is working with other states.
A lot of our individuals are receiving training throughout the country and some of our guys are known through other various aspects and the individual that worked on this phone was known by individuals from New Jersey , because he was helping teach a class on foot mobile forensics and attended some classes so they remembered his name , said call this guy is Detective Randy Koranic from his word and they knew him they contacted him and we were able to help them out. It was a pretty significant case .
What about helping out other jurisdictions in this area. You mentioned the Major Case Squad . We know how that works with the various agencies coming together . How does it work here in in this region . How extensive , it said .
Our soldiers 8 law enforcement entity were like a task force. We’re also a corporation register with the state of Missouri a 5 oh 1 C 3 nonprofit because we’re not funded normally like that , so why are so does is , we provide law enforcement assistance to any entity on the eastern side of Missouri , one of the things we get us are finding a shoe a grant from the state cyber crime unit . So we have to individuals has funded that way so anybody that has a child crime they just bring in will handle it , we take care of it , but if it’s regular crime . Normally , we have a subscription where individual agencies will subscribe to bring it in and then we performed the cases 4 and give back .
Do do you belong to a a a particular jurisdiction on the new part of the Clayton Police Department for instance.
I am part I’m at Clayton after IBM Clayton for 4 years , but each individual in our unit is from different agencies , we have a Clayton after Hazel would St Louis County Webster Groves choose Perry. But we are a total separate entity . We are an autonomous entity registered with the state and also registered with the Department of Justice , with our own original number . So we’re , our own entity but we provide assistance to the region well do .